[BR] Darkrai Lv.X (GE 104). Sableye (CG 10). Game engine error a

Bug Reports
1

Darkrai Lv.X (GE 104). Sableye (CG 10). Game engine error after darkrai lv.x uses darkrai's attack on sableye. Sableye had previously used disable on darkrai lv.x (worth noting: Only Darkrai Lv.X's attack was selectable. This may require a ruling given that Darkrai's attack is not provided by a pokebody/power/ability etc.)

Game starting
Game type: QuickPlay
Game format: 2008 (HP-MD)
Battle started between philiquaz and Primallatios!
Coin flip result: TAILS
Primallatios will start
Game setup complete
Between turns
Turn 1 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Darkrai.
Between turns
Turn 2 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
Attached a Darkness Energy (HP 94) to Sableye.
Murkrow evolved into Honchkrow
philiquaz played Dusk Ball.
Put [Seedot (DP 97)] to Hand
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
Put Seedot onto bench
Sableye has used Excavate
philiquaz played Professor Rowan.
Put 1 card to Deck
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
philiquaz drew 4 cards
Put [Professor Rowan (SW 123)] to Played Supporter
Put Murkrow onto bench
philiquaz played Master Ball.
Put [Honchkrow (MT 10)] to Hand
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
Sableye used Disable
Darkness Energy +10
Sableye did 20 damage to Darkrai
Darkrai cant use Hypnoblast next turn.
Professor Rowan (SW 123) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 3 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Put Sneasel onto bench
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Darkrai.
Primallatios played Scott.
Put [TV Reporter (DF 82), Felicity's Drawing (GE 98), Moonlight Stadium (GE 100)] to Hand
Primallatios has shuffled deck.
Put [Scott (PK 81)] to Played Supporter
Scott (PK 81) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 4 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
philiquaz played Dusk Ball.
Put [Nuzleaf (DP 57)] to Hand
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
Seedot evolved into Nuzleaf
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Honchkrow.
Sableye has used Excavate
Windstorm (CG 85) was discarded
Sableye used Disable
Darkness Energy +10
Sableye did 20 damage to Darkrai
Darkrai cant use Hypnoblast next turn.
Between turns
Turn 5 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Darkrai leveled-up into Darkrai Lv.X (DPP DP19)
Attached a Scramble Energy (POP4 10) to Darkrai Lv.X.
Primallatios played TV Reporter.
Primallatios drew 3 cards
Holon Adventurer (HP 85) was discarded
Put [TV Reporter (DF 82)] to Played Supporter
Darkrai Lv.X used Endless Darkness
Dark Shadow +20
Darkrai Lv.X did 60 damage to Sableye
Sableye is now asleep
Sableye was knocked out
Darkness Energy (HP 94) was discarded
Sableye (CG 10) is no longer asleep
Primallatios took one prize card.
Nuzleaf is now active
TV Reporter (DF 82) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 6 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
philiquaz played Steven's Advice.
philiquaz drew 2 cards
Put [Steven's Advice (PK 83)] to Played Supporter
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Nuzleaf.
Nuzleaf used Dirty Trick
Coin flip result: TAILS
Steven's Advice (PK 83) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 7 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Sneasel.
Primallatios played TV Reporter.
Primallatios drew 3 cards
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Put [TV Reporter (DF 82)] to Played Supporter
Put Darkrai onto bench
Darkrai Lv.X used Hypnoblast
Coin flip result: HEADS
Dark Shadow +20
Darkrai Lv.X did 80 damage to Nuzleaf
Nuzleaf is now asleep
Nuzleaf was knocked out
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Nuzleaf (DP 57) is no longer asleep
Primallatios took one prize card.
Murkrow is now active
TV Reporter (DF 82) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 8 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
Darkrai has used Darkness Shade
Darkrai Lv.X is now asleep
Put Darkrai onto bench
philiquaz played Professor Rowan.
Put 2 cards to Deck
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
philiquaz drew 4 cards
Put [Professor Rowan (SW 123)] to Played Supporter
Professor Rowan (SW 123) was discarded
Between turns
Asleep coin flip result: TAILS
Darkrai Lv.X is still asleep
Turn 9 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Primallatios played Felicity's Drawing.
Primallatios drew 4 cards
Premier Ball (GE 101) was discarded
Time-Space Distortion (MT 124) was discarded
Put [Felicity's Drawing (GE 98)] to Played Supporter
Put Rotom onto bench
Put Sneasel onto bench
Attached a Darkness Energy (MD 93) to Darkrai.
Felicity's Drawing (GE 98) was discarded
Between turns
Asleep coin flip result: HEADS
Darkrai Lv.X (DPP DP19) is no longer asleep
Turn 10 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
philiquaz played Steven's Advice.
philiquaz drew 5 cards
Put [Steven's Advice (PK 83)] to Played Supporter
Put Sableye onto bench
Attached a Darkness Energy (HP 94) to Honchkrow.
Sableye has used Excavate
philiquaz played Warp Point.
Sneasel is now active
Darkrai is now active
Darkrai leveled-up into Darkrai Lv.X (GE 104)
Steven's Advice (PK 83) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 11 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Sneasel evolved into Weavile
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Darkrai.
Weavile retreated.
Darkrai Lv.X is now active
Darkrai Lv.X used Endless Darkness
Dark Shadow +20
Darkrai Lv.X did 60 damage to Darkrai Lv.X
Darkrai Lv.X is now asleep
Between turns
Asleep (Endless Darkness) coin flip result: TAILS TAILS
Darkrai Lv.X is knocked out by Endless Darkness.
Darkrai Lv.X was knocked out
Darkrai Lv.X (GE 104) is no longer asleep
Primallatios took one prize card.
Murkrow is now active
Turn 12 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Honchkrow.
philiquaz played Steven's Advice.
philiquaz drew 5 cards
Put [Steven's Advice (PK 83)] to Played Supporter
[Primallatios]: Thanos, I swear that move is broken
[philiquaz]: it's not a good streak
[philiquaz]: I swear the flipping on this site is sometimes biased lmao
[Primallatios]: i feel you yeah
[philiquaz]: also, dark genes not working?
[Primallatios]: lately tho, Endless darkness just eat pokemons
[Primallatios]: hm
[Primallatios]: true heh
TURN TIMER: a Timeout Allowance was consumed to add 60 seconds to turn time
[philiquaz]: well, this sucks
Moonlight Stadium is now in play.
Murkrow retreated.
Honchkrow is now active
Sableye has used Excavate
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Honchkrow used Dark Wing Flaps
Darkness Energy +10
Honchkrow did 60 damage to Darkrai Lv.X
Put [Premier Ball (GE 101)] to Deck
Primallatios has shuffled deck.
Darkrai Lv.X was knocked out
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Scramble Energy (POP4 10) was discarded
philiquaz took one prize card.
Weavile is now active
Steven's Advice (PK 83) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 13 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Primallatios played Time-Space Distortion.
Coin flip result: TAILS TAILS HEADS
Put [Darkrai Lv.X (DPP DP19)] to Hand
Attached a Darkness Energy (MD 93) to Darkrai.
Weavile retreated.
Darkrai is now active
Darkrai leveled-up into Darkrai Lv.X (DPP DP19)
Darkrai Lv.X used Hypnoblast
Coin flip result: TAILS
Darkness Energy +10
Darkness Energy +10
Dark Shadow +10
Darkrai Lv.X did 90 damage to Honchkrow
Honchkrow was knocked out
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Darkness Energy (HP 94) was discarded
Primallatios took one prize card.
Sableye is now active
Between turns
Turn 14 begins
philiquaz drew 1 card
philiquaz played Master Ball.
Put [Honchkrow Lv.X (SW 132)] to Hand
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
Attached a Darkness Energy (DP 129) to Sableye.
Amulet Coin (GE 97) is attached to Sableye
philiquaz played Professor Rowan.
Put 7 cards to Deck
philiquaz has shuffled deck.
philiquaz drew 4 cards
Put [Professor Rowan (SW 123)] to Played Supporter
Sableye has used Excavate
Honchkrow Lv.X (SW 132) was discarded
Sableye used Disable
Sableye did 10 damage to Darkrai Lv.X
Darkrai Lv.X cant use Endless Darkness next turn.
Amulet Coin activates
philiquaz drew 1 card
Professor Rowan (SW 123) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 15 begins
Primallatios drew 1 card
Put Cresselia onto bench
Primallatios played Holon Adventurer.
Moonlight Stadium (GE 100) was discarded
Primallatios drew 3 cards
Put [Holon Adventurer (HP 85)] to Played Supporter
Darkrai Lv.X used Hypnoblast
Coin flip result: TAILS
Darkness Aura +20
Darkness Energy +10
Darkness Energy +10
Dark Shadow +10
Darkrai Lv.X did 110 damage to Sableye
Sableye was knocked out
Darkness Energy (DP 129) was discarded
Amulet Coin (GE 97) was discarded
Primallatios took one prize card.
Murkrow is now active
Holon Adventurer (HP 85) was discarded
Between turns
Game Engine Error!
[philiquaz]: disable also only lets you choose lv.x's attacks. not sure if that's intentional given that it's not an ability granting the other attacks
[philiquaz]: oh
[philiquaz]: well then
[Primallatios]: hmm
[Primallatios]: thats indeed an odd occurance yeah
[philiquaz]: wonder what caused that
[Primallatios]: me too
[philiquaz]: now I just need to wait 5 minutes for automatic win, obviously
[Primallatios]: lol
[philiquaz]: you know which sableye that is?
[Primallatios]: thats the disable excavate one from that one set
[Primallatios]: welp
philiquaz wins the game! Opponent has surrendered
[philiquaz]: ah, crystal guadians
[philiquaz]: time for bug report
[Primallatios]: indeed
[Primallatios]: done
[Primallatios]: I guess you could report the dark genes not working
Primallatios has closed game view.

2

Hi @Testers can you please try to reproduce this then report back?

3

I cannot reproduce the error but it is true that “disable-like” attacks should be able to target attacks from Darkrai because the attacks are not provided by abilities,stadiums or pokemon tools

4

Should that logic include metronome-like effects too? e.g. “Choose an attack on 1 of your opponent’s Pokémon in play. Metronome copies that attack”

5

yes,
ピクシーのワザ「ゆびをふる」で相手のポケモンLV.Xの、レベルアップ前のワザを使うことはできますか？

はい、レベルアップ前のワザを使えます。

Can I use my opponent’s Pokémon LV.X before it levels up by using Pixie’s Waza “shake”?

Yes, you can use a pre-level-up Waza.

More info here:Trello

6

Disable/Amnesia should not be able to target Darkrai’s attacks (if Darkrai LV.X is above it).

In general there is a difference between a Pokémon having an attack/Ability/Poké-Power/Body, versus being able to use an attack/Ability/Poké-Power/Body.

One example:
Q: Say my opponent has 3 Genesect V on the bench and Path to the Peak is in play. If I attack with Scizor’s “Punishing Scissors” attack, do I do 10 damage or 160 damage?
A: When Path to the Peak is in play Genesect V has no Abilities, so Punishing Scissors would only do 10 damage in this situation.
Path to the Peak removes Abilities, so they do not count towards Punishing Scissors.

The opposite example: suppose you have a Raichu δ with Cessation Crystal attached, and it uses Zzzap. Pokémon with Powers/Bodies still take damage, because Cess does not remove the Powers/Bodies; it prevents them from being used.

LV.X’s are worded as “can use any attack, Poké-Power, or Poké-Body from [their] previous level” — they do not actually have those attacks, so said attacks are not selectable by Disable/Amnesia.

BREAK Evolutions, on the other hand, “retain the attacks […] of [their] previous Evolution”, so said attacks can be selected by Disable/Amnesia. (The example given in the Compendium BW is that of Mew-EX using those attacks with its Versatile Ability.)

7

They may have used different verbs due to historical reasons but words can be deprecated and overruled. By logic, I would prefer (and expect) Lv.X and BREAK work similarly on this topic.

Is there a specific ruling for this or is it a deduction?

8

Wait, there is an exception just for LV.X’s:

  • An attack that copies another Pokemon’s attack can only copy attacks printed on that Pokemon, not other attacks that the Pokemon may use due to Poke-POWERs, Poke-BODYs, Stadiums, etc. (with the exception of Lv.X Pokemon since they are considered “extensions” of the original Pokemon). (Apr 17, 2008 PUI Rules Team)
1 Like
9

So by deduction, just like Metronome, Amnesia/Disable should also be able to select those moves right?

1 Like
10

Yes.

The “can use” on LV.X’s rules text should be treated as “has” (“… can use has any attack, Poké-Power, or Poké-Body from its previous level”). This other ruling (pertaining to Poké-Powers/Bodies instead of attacks) makes it clear:

Q. If Gengar uses “Shadow Room” against a Lv.X Pokemon that has no Poke-POWER, but the card underneath the Lv.X does have a Poke-POWER, does “Shadow Room” place three or six damage counters?
A. The Lv.X Pokemon has the Poke-POWERs and Poke-BODYs from the card underneath it, so Shadow Room would place six damage counters in this situation. (Nov 20, 2008 PUI Rules Team)

1 Like
11

Thanks for clarification!

Now I have already patched Disable/Amnesia case locally but all the other references that targets abilities or moves of the top pokemon need further extraction.

12

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