Space Center vs Evolved Pokemon

1

Jirachi (DX 9). Wobbuffet (LM 28). Space Center is not shutting off Wobbuffet's Stages of Evolution Poke Body.

Game starting
Game type: QUICKPLAY
Game format: EX Series
Battle started between TyraniBoah and JakeGearhart!
Coin flip result: TAILS
JakeGearhart will start
Game setup complete
Between turns
Turn 1 begins
[TyraniBoah]: round 2
Put Girafarig onto bench
[JakeGearhart]: :)
Between turns
Turn 2 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Attached a Fighting Energy (RS 105) to Machop.
Put Machop onto bench
TyraniBoah played Celio's Network.
Put [Machoke (PK 33)] to Hand
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
Put [Celio's Network (RG 88)] to Played Supporter
Machop used Knuckle Punch
Machop did 10 damage to Rayquaza ex
Celio's Network (RG 88) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 3 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
JakeGearhart played Energy Removal 2.
Coin flip result: HEADS
Fighting Energy (RS 105) was discarded
JakeGearhart played Rocket's Admin. .
Put 4 cards to Deck
Put 5 cards to Deck
JakeGearhart has shuffled deck.
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
JakeGearhart drew 6 cards
TyraniBoah drew 6 cards
Put [Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86)] to Played Supporter
Put Rayquaza ex onto bench
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Rayquaza ex.
Battle Frontier is now in play.
Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 4 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
TyraniBoah played Rocket's Admin. .
Put 6 cards to Deck
Put 3 cards to Deck
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
JakeGearhart has shuffled deck.
TyraniBoah drew 6 cards
JakeGearhart drew 6 cards
Put [Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86)] to Played Supporter
Attached a Fighting Energy (RS 105) to Machop.
Machop used Knuckle Punch
Machop did 10 damage to Rayquaza ex
Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 5 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
JakeGearhart played Energy Removal 2.
Coin flip result: TAILS
JakeGearhart played Holon Adventurer.
Chimecho (HP 37) was discarded
JakeGearhart drew 3 cards
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Put [Holon Adventurer (HP 85)] to Played Supporter
Put Wynaut onto bench
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Rayquaza ex.
Rayquaza ex used Special Circuit
Rayquaza ex did 30 damage to Machop
Holon Adventurer (HP 85) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 6 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
TyraniBoah played Celio's Network.
Put [Machoke (PK 33)] to Hand
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
Put [Celio's Network (RG 88)] to Played Supporter
Machop evolved into Machoke
Attached a Heal Energy (DX 94) to Machoke.
Machoke already has full health.
Machop used Knuckle Punch
Machop did 10 damage to Rayquaza ex
Celio's Network (RG 88) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 7 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Rayquaza ex.
JakeGearhart played Holon Transceiver.
Put [Holon Adventurer (HP 85)] to Hand
JakeGearhart played Holon Adventurer.
Wynaut (LM 71) was discarded
JakeGearhart drew 3 cards
Put [Holon Adventurer (HP 85)] to Played Supporter
Rayquaza ex used Special Circuit
Rayquaza ex did 30 damage to Machoke
Holon Adventurer (HP 85) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 8 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Fighting Energy (RS 105) was discarded
Machop retreated.
Machoke is now active
Machoke evolved into Machamp
Attached a Double Rainbow Energy (EM 87) to Machamp.
Machamp used Brick Smash
Overzealous +30
Double Rainbow Energy -10
Machamp did 60 damage to Rayquaza ex
Between turns
Turn 9 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Rayquaza ex.
Rayquaza ex used Special Circuit
Rayquaza ex did 50 damage to Machamp
Between turns
Turn 10 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Put Machop onto bench
Machamp used Brick Smash
Overzealous +30
Double Rainbow Energy -10
Machamp did 60 damage to Rayquaza ex
Rayquaza ex was knocked out
Lightning Energy (HP 108) was discarded
Lightning Energy (HP 108) was discarded
TyraniBoah took one prize card.
TyraniBoah took one prize card.
Rayquaza ex is now active
Between turns
Turn 11 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Put Stantler onto bench
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Stantler.
JakeGearhart played Rocket's Admin. .
Put 5 cards to Deck
Put 5 cards to Deck
JakeGearhart has shuffled deck.
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
JakeGearhart drew 6 cards
TyraniBoah drew 4 cards
Put [Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86)] to Played Supporter
Rayquaza ex used Special Circuit
Rayquaza ex did 50 damage to Machamp
Machamp was knocked out
Double Rainbow Energy (EM 87) was discarded
Heal Energy (DX 94) was discarded
JakeGearhart took one prize card.
Machop is now active
Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 12 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
TyraniBoah played Celio's Network.
Put [Machoke (PK 33)] to Hand
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
Put [Celio's Network (RG 88)] to Played Supporter
Machop evolved into Machoke
Attached a Double Rainbow Energy (EM 87) to Machoke.
TyraniBoah played Windstorm.
Battle Frontier (EM 75) was discarded
Machoke used Steady Punch
Coin flip result: TAILS
Double Rainbow Energy -10
Machoke did 0 damage to Rayquaza ex
Celio's Network (RG 88) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 13 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Battle Frontier is now in play.
JakeGearhart played Holon Adventurer.
Holon Mentor (DS 93) was discarded
JakeGearhart drew 3 cards
Put [Holon Adventurer (HP 85)] to Played Supporter
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Stantler.
JakeGearhart played Warp Point.
Machop is now active
Stantler is now active
Stantler used Push Away
Stantler did 20 damage to Machop
Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86) was discarded
Machop was knocked out
JakeGearhart took one prize card.
Machoke is now active
Holon Adventurer (HP 85) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 14 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Machoke used Steady Punch
Coin flip result: HEADS
Double Rainbow Energy -10
Stantler is weak to FIGHTING
Machoke did 40 damage to Stantler
Between turns
Turn 15 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
JakeGearhart played Energy Removal 2.
Coin flip result: TAILS
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Rayquaza ex.
Stantler used Screechy Voice
Machoke is now confused
Stantler did 10 damage to Machoke
Between turns
Turn 16 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Machoke evolved into Machamp
Machoke (PK 33) is no longer confused
Machamp used Derail
Double Rainbow Energy -10
Stantler is weak to FIGHTING
Machamp did 60 damage to Stantler
Stantler was knocked out
Lightning Energy (HP 108) was discarded
Lightning Energy (HP 108) was discarded
TyraniBoah took one prize card.
Rayquaza ex is now active
Between turns
Turn 17 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Put Stantler onto bench
JakeGearhart played Holon Researcher.
Holon Transceiver (DS 98) was discarded
Put [Rayquaza ex (DF 97)] to Hand
JakeGearhart has shuffled deck.
Put [Holon Researcher (DS 95)] to Played Supporter
Put Rayquaza ex onto bench
Rayquaza ex used Sky-high Claws
Rayquaza ex did 70 damage to Machamp
Holon Researcher (DS 95) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 18 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Put Jirachi onto bench
TyraniBoah played Mr. Briney's Compassion.
Put [Machamp (LM 9), Machoke (PK 33), Machop (HL 64), Double Rainbow Energy (EM 87)] to Hand
Jirachi is now active
Jirachi (DX 9)'s ability is blocked.
Put [Mr. Briney's Compassion (POP2 8)] to Played Supporter
Put Machop onto bench
Machop evolved into Machoke
TyraniBoah played Rare Candy.
Attached a Double Rainbow Energy (EM 87) to Machoke.
Mr. Briney's Compassion (POP2 8) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 19 begins
JakeGearhart drew 1 card
Attached a Lightning Energy (HP 108) to Stantler.
JakeGearhart played Rocket's Admin. .
Put 3 cards to Deck
Put 2 cards to Deck
JakeGearhart has shuffled deck.
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
JakeGearhart drew 4 cards
TyraniBoah drew 3 cards
Put [Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86)] to Played Supporter
Wynaut has used Baby Evolution
Wynaut evolved into Wobbuffet
Rayquaza ex used Special Circuit
Rayquaza ex did 30 damage to Machoke
Rocket's Admin. (TRR 86) was discarded
Between turns
Turn 20 begins
TyraniBoah drew 1 card
Battle Frontier (EM 75) will be discarded as Space Center (DX 91) is played.
Battle Frontier (EM 75) was discarded
Girafarig (LM 16)'s ability is blocked.
Space Center is now in play.
[TyraniBoah]: So, is space center stopping Wobbuffet?
[JakeGearhart]: I think so
[JakeGearhart]: because it's both an evolution and a basic
[TyraniBoah]: The prompt doesn't say. I agree.
Jirachi has used Wishing Star
Put 1 card to Hand
TyraniBoah has shuffled deck.
Jirachi is now asleep
TyraniBoah played Steven's Advice.
TyraniBoah drew 5 cards
Put [Steven's Advice (HL 92)] to Played Supporter
Attached a Heal Energy (DX 94) to Jirachi.
Jirachi already has full health.
Jirachi (DX 9) is no longer asleep
[TyraniBoah]: It says not enough energy to retreat.
[JakeGearhart]: I would think that's a bug but I'd have to check the rulebook first
[TyraniBoah]: I'll report it as a bug.

2

I don’t think it’s a bug, since the wobbuffet is considered an evolved pokemon when there is a wynaut under it, according to the ex compendium:
Q. If I use “Baby Evolution” to evolve Pichu into Pikachu, or Wynaut into Wobbuffet, is the resulting Pokémon. (Pikachu, Wobbuffet, etc.) considered an “Evolved Pokémon.”, or is it still considered as a “Basic Pokémon.”?
A. Any time you evolve a Pokémon. into another stage, it is considered to be an “Evolved Pokémon.”, even if the words written on the card say “Basic”. Alternatively, the quick and dirty way to figure this out is…is there a Pokémon. underneath it? If yes, then it’s evolved. (Jan 22, 2004 PUI Rules Team)

4

The problem I have with this interpretation is the state of being ‘non-evolved’ is not used to define a Basic Pokemon, as counterintuitive as this might seem. Instead, only two definitions of a ‘Basic’ Pokemon are used in the game. First, the card has the ‘Basic’ symbol on it, or a Pokemon is defined as ‘Basic’ by card effect. The card effects of Archie, Maxie and Strange Cave, along with the attacks Influence and Team Assembly, override a card’s text explicitly and turn Stage 1’s and Stage 2’s into Basics. These cards do not refer them as being ‘non-evolved’ Basics, just Basics. Even the card effects of Fossils turn them into Basics when played, even though they don’t have the ‘Basic’ descriptor.

Wynaut’s Poke Power does not say to modify the card text of Wobbuffet like Archie, Maxie or Strange Cave do. Wobbuffet’s Poke Body also does not say to modify its card text into something other than a Basic. While the compendium does say that by virtue of having a Pokemon beneath it, a Pokemon is considered ‘evolved’, and I agree with this, it does not say that being ‘evolved’ automatically makes a Pokemon a Stage 1, a Stage 2, or ‘non-Basic’. Nothing is said about what Wobbuffet has evolved into . Its text says it is a ‘Basic’.

For example, a Stage 1 evolution card that has become an ‘evolved’ Pokemon (rather than placed on the bench via card effect like Archie) has ‘Stage 1, evolves from’ on the card, denoting it is a ‘Stage 1 Evolution’. Wobbuffet’s Poke Body does not say ‘Stage 1’, ‘Stage 2’, or anything to override its ‘Basic’ descriptor. At first, an obvious answer might be that Wobbuffet is simply a Stage 1, since it has a Basic underneath it, but this is groundless to assume. We know from Rare Candy that an evolution card being on top of a Basic does not automatically make it a Stage 1, as Rare Candy can place a Stage 2 on top of a Basic, and the Stage 2’s card text keeps that evolution a Stage 2.

Similar, if you place an Omastar onto an Omanyte that was placed on the bench via Team Assembly, Omastar is not a Stage 1 evolved, it is a Stage 2 evolved as denoted by its card text, as seen in this compendium ruling:

A. The Omastar would still be considered a “Stage 2” Pokémon, even if there is no Fossil underneath it. The Omanyte would be a non-evolved (Basic) Pokémon that is “Stage 1”. (Feb 16, 2006 PUI Rules Team)

Notably, there’s that ‘non-evolved Basic’ terminology appearing, implying there is such a thing as an ‘evolved Basic’.

It’s also worth noting that Kabutops PK’s Primal Stare Poke Body calls out ‘Basic and Evolution’ cards when stopping your opponent from evolving their active Pokemon, further evidence that ‘non-evolution’ cards can undergo evolution, not just Stage 1’s and Stage 2’s. On the other hand, cards like Ancient Technical Machine [Rock] would refer to Wobbuffet as an ‘evolution card’ while in play, and cards like Professor Elm’s Training Method when referring to ‘Evolution card’ do not include Basics while in the deck. But, nothing has altered Wobbuffet’s ‘Basic’ text when it is placed on top of Wynaut. It is neither Stage 1, nor Stage 2. The only indication as to what it is its card text describing it as a ‘Basic’ Pokemon and Wynaut making it ‘Evolved’.

This is to say nothing of the pre-EX era Baby Rules that did not change their ‘evolved Basics’ into Stage 1’s. Clefable, for instance, does not become a Stage ‘3’.

Another example of the Basic vs. Evolved terminology, cards like Double Rainbow Energy and Scramble Energy do not refer to Stage 1’s and Stage 2’s, rather to ‘Evolved’ Pokemon. Dark Tyranitar’s Sand Damage refers to ‘Basic’ Pokemon, not ‘non-evolved’ Pokemon, again showing that being non-evolved is not what defines a Basic.

Space Center refers to Basic Pokemon, not ‘non-evolved’ Pokemon, which means it applies to Pokemon that either have ‘Basic’ in their text, or have been modified into a Basic by card effect (like Archie). Basics can be ‘Evolved’, but still be ‘Basic’ if nothing has modified their card text. Wobbuffet, Electabuzz, Clefairy and Magmar with their respective Baby’s underneath them, are still Basic Pokemon and subject to any card effects that refer to ‘Basic’ Pokemon.

5

@TyraniBoah Your logic makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, Pokémon cards sometimes don’t. Often in this game we have to determine what the intention of a card is rather than go by the literal text. In this instance, I’m assuming we’ve always had it right that Space Center should not disable Poké-Bodies of an evolved Wobbuffet, Jynx, etc. Even though TPCi still got a few rulings wrong around this time, Wobbuffet and Jynx were both popular enough cards where I feel like we’d have heard from Japan if we had been doing it wrong.

6

This reminds of when we discussed Fossil starts and whether starting with Fossils is consistent with the rules. The 2006 season allowed Fossil starts with 2004 and 2005 allowing infinite fossil mulligans. According to PTCGArchive (is it accurate?), Fossil starts were allowed up to 2013 until the website’s archive ends. You feel TPCi got the ruling wrong, despite it going unchallenged during that time, whereas I feel it’s a valid interpretation of the card’s text, despite the “playing rules” changing in the future. I think what this shows is that the intentions of the game designers does in fact vary with time, rather than subsequent eras representing ‘errata’s’ for previous ones.

If DP era’s ‘Isn’t an Evolved Pokemon’ references, like in Snowpoint Temple, or Machamp SF’s ‘Take Out’, is taken as an errata of previous eras, then every reference to in-play ‘Basic’ Pokemon of multiple cards has to be modified.

7

Fossils are particularly tricky but I think we’ve finally got them figured out. @Hope_advpcg was able to provide the following ruling from Japan: https://seesaawiki.jp/w/pokeca/d/���Х롼��

Until EX Legend Maker, Fossils could not be played during set-up. The ruling changed at the EX Legend Maker set. At this point, Fossils were treated as Basic Pokémon during set-up and could no longer be mulliganed as your only Pokémon.

This actually makes sense considering EX Legend Maker is the set Mysterious Fossil was reprinted in with 50 HP instead of 10 HP.

This rule should also apply for the Diamond & Pearl / Platinum era Fossils.

8

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